JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
President Trump has issued an executive order designating antifa a, quote, "domestic terrorist organization." The announcement comes as no surprise. After the killing of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, Trump and other conservatives have been talking about taking such a step. NPR's domestic extremism correspondent, Odette Yousef, is here now. Hi.
ODETTE YOUSEF, BYLINE: Hey, Juana.
SUMMERS: Odette, tell us about this executive order.
YOUSEF: Well, so antifa is shorthand for anti-fascist. It's a far-left movement, some would say an ideology. But the order goes a step further and calls it, quote, "a militarist, anarchist enterprise." It says antifa - and again, this is a quote - "recruits, trains and radicalizes young Americans," and that it, quote, "employs elaborate means and mechanisms to shield the identities of its operatives, conceal its funding sources and operations." The order directs executive departments to investigate and prosecute anyone with links to antifa. But as we've discussed on this show before, there's still lots of open questions.
SUMMERS: Indeed. Walk us through some of those questions.
YOUSEF: So this order sets a precedent. The U.S. has never designated a domestic terrorist organization before. And so the first question is, what is the legal authority to make this designation? You know, there is none currently under federal law, and if we are to see investigations and prosecutions proceed because of a claimed nexus with antifa, this will undoubtedly lead to legal challenges. You know, labeling political activity as terrorist activity could run the risk of infringing on Americans' First Amendment rights. But before we even get into that, you know, there is a real lack of clarity over this characterization of antifa as a formal hierarchical organization. You know, that is something the previous Trump administration tried to establish and couldn't.
SUMMERS: Right, I remember that. Remind us what exactly happened there.
YOUSEF: Right, so back in 2020, you'll recall a period of prolonged protests in Portland, Oregon, after the killing of George Floyd, a Black man in Minneapolis. At night, the protests turned violent. So President Trump authorized the deployment of federal officers. And when they were there, there was a focus on trying to establish antifa as a coordinated, hierarchical network of actors. I spoke with Billy Williams about this. He was the U.S. attorney for the District of Oregon at the time, and he said those efforts proved elusive.
BILLY WILLIAMS: That's something that I think folks were trying to figure out - you know, who their leader is and who do they follow. And so that's why I used the term decentralized. It's not like you could, you know, go online and say, oh, that's their leader, or that's their national organizational headquarters. I don't recall any of that being detected.
YOUSEF: And, you know, at the time, it was an effort to try to uncover coordinated activity just in Portland. Today, the claims are even bigger, saying that antifa is behind everything from anti-ICE protests in Los Angeles to campus protests against the war in Gaza.
SUMMERS: Odette, given all of that history, any sense as of right now as to how this designation with this executive order might play out?
YOUSEF: So I'm hearing a real fear that this conflation of anti-fascism and terrorism may stigmatize anyone or any group working on movements for community building and racial or social justice. You know, I think it's really interesting that yesterday, the attorney general in Florida announced a new portal to receive civilian tips on violent extremism. I reached out to that office, and I did not hear back. You know, certainly, in a time of rising political violence, it is important for people to report credible threats of violence. But the question is, will we now also see people reporting stuff for no other reason than, you know, they think it's connected to antifa? And will that spur investigations? You know, if so, that could run into First Amendment issues.
SUMMERS: That was NPR's Odette Yousef. Thank you so much.
YOUSEF: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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