MILES PARKS, HOST:
It is, of course, the season to be merry, and few characters embody the Christmas season more than one man...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "A CHRISTMAS CAROL")
ALASTAIR SIM: (As Ebenezer Scrooge) Christmas, sir, is a humbug. Good day.
PARKS: ...Ebenezer Scrooge. That clip is from the 1951 version of Charles Dickens' "Christmas Carol," starring Alastair Sim. Over the years, lots of actors have played the iconic role, like George C. Scott...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "A CHRISTMAS CAROL")
GEORGE C. SCOTT: (As Ebenezer Scrooge) If you wait until tomorrow, it'll cost you another 5%.
JOHN SHARP: (As Tipton) D*** it, Scrooge, it's not fair.
SCOTT: (As Ebenezer Scrooge) No, but it's business.
PARKS: ...Michael Caine...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL")
MICHAEL CAINE: (As Scrooge) Let us deal with the eviction notices for tomorrow, Mr. Cratchit.
STEVE WHITMIRE: (As Kermit the Frog as Bob Cratchit) Uh, tomorrow's Christmas, sir.
CAINE: (As Scrooge) Very well, you may gift wrap them.
PARKS: ...Jim Carrey...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "A CHRISTMAS CAROL")
JIM CARREY: (As Scrooge) Humbug.
COLIN FIRTH: (As Fred) Don't be cross, Uncle.
CARREY: (As Scrooge) What else can I be when I live in such a world of fools as this?
PARKS: And that is not even mentioning Scrooge McDuck. With Christmas just a few days away, we thought we'd talk Scrooge with two of NPR's biggest "Christmas Carol" fans, NPR senior editor Barrie Hardymon. Hi, Barrie.
BARRIE HARDYMON, BYLINE: Hi.
PARKS: And ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer Elena Burnett - hi, Elena.
ELENA BURNETT, BYLINE: Hello.
PARKS: Go to the beginning here. Barrie, what was your first Scrooge...
HARDYMON: Chapter 1 - I am born.
PARKS: (Laughter) Yeah.
HARDYMON: I am born watching the George C. Scott version, which was very, very - like, it was hallowed video in my house because, you know, he was a real classical actor, and, you know, my mother was always like, this is the Scrooge. And so I was very much indoctrinated with that in the beginning. And I loved it. It really has continued to be a favorite.
PARKS: Elena, what about you?
BURNETT: Well, so my first movie version was actually also George C. Scott.
PARKS: Oh.
HARDYMON: (Inaudible).
BURNETT: However, I had the inverse because I've watched that film two times in my entire life, the first time when I was 7 and the second just a couple of days ago...
HARDYMON: Oh.
BURNETT: ...In preparation for this, because I was so terrified. The Ghost of Christmas Future with just the simple finger was what kept me up for years.
HARDYMON: Is it a skeletal finger? I kind of can't remember.
BURNETT: It's...
HARDYMON: It's a skeleton, right?
BURNETT: Yeah.
HARDYMON: Yeah.
BURNETT: I mean, all of them - all of the Ghosts of Christmas Future are pretty spooky.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "A CHRISTMAS CAROL")
SCOTT: (As Ebenezer Scrooge) You're about to show me the shadows of the things that have not happened but will happen in the time before us. Isn't that so?
(SOUNDBITE OF DISCORDANT MUSIC)
BURNETT: I had only known, like, the final stave, you know, Christmas Day and, you know, go fetch the biggest turkey. And I was like, oh, this is a jolly, you know, story.
HARDYMON: What fun (ph).
BURNETT: And I was quickly - I quickly realized the error of my ways.
PARKS: I feel like it's so interesting about this. There have been very few stories that have been remade this many times.
HARDYMON: Yeah.
PARKS: And I feel like - do you have any thoughts on that, Barrie, on why - what it is about the original Dickens text that makes it so ripe for redoing over and over and over again?
HARDYMON: Well, yeah. I mean, actually, if you look, there's something like 40 or 50.
PARKS: Oh, my gosh. Really?
HARDYMON: I'm not - that's actually real.
PARKS: And that's not including all the high school versions that are done all over the country, right?
HARDYMON: Yes, all the people with the paper beards stuck to their face.
PARKS: (Laughter).
HARDYMON: No, it's - I mean, it is - it has become kind of a "Hamlet," right? Like, it is absolutely, you know, one of these things that is in an actor's repertoire. Patrick Stewart before he did - or may have been after - but around the same time of, you know, doing the movie version, he was also doing a stage version. It has become really, like, an important milestone.
PARKS: Elena, do you have any thoughts on what makes a good Scrooge? I mean, what are the qualities? Obviously, you have to be humbugging. You have to have - I imagine that comes first, in terms of, like, as you're preparing to play this role, you have to figure out exactly how you want to humbug, but...
HARDYMON: It's the - to be or not to be - for sure (laughter).
PARKS: Right. Not to keep...
BURNETT: Yeah.
PARKS: (Laughter) Oh, my gosh, the "Hamlet" comparisons. But what other qualities do you think go into being a good Scrooge?
BURNETT: Scrooge only spends a portion of the film, of the play, of whatever version you're talking about as a sort of, you know, crabby old man. There is so much emotion that happens on his way to this exuberant joy at the very end. And I feel like there's - you know, there's only a few actors that, for me, really sell it, that I actually believe the crabbiness and...
HARDYMON: The transformation.
BURNETT: ...The transformation and all of the emotions along the way, the fear, the guilt, the shame, the confusion. I think the realization of ignorance is such a big part of this. And that can be very nuanced. And sometimes that can feel, you know, trite in one actor's hand and can feel like, I've seen this story play out a bunch of different ways, and I'm discovering something new in the hands of a new actor.
PARKS: All right, I got to do it - favorite Scrooge, then. I mean, are you guys going back to your roots here, or are you going to pick a different Scrooge?
BURNETT: I got to go Michael Caine. I got to go Michael Caine and the Muppets. You know, everybody always talks about how he is so faithful. It's - he's not acting with Muppets. He is just acting his heart out, and he just becomes Scrooge.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL")
CAINE: (As Scrooge) I know how to treat the poor. My taxes go to pay for the prisons and the poor houses. The homeless must go there.
DAVE GOELZ: (As The Great Gonzo as Bunsen Honeydew) But some would rather die.
CAINE: (As Scrooge) If they'd rather die, then they'd better do it and decrease the surplus population.
GOELZ: (As The Great Gonzo as Bunsen Honeydew) Oh, dear. Oh, dear.
BURNETT: And I also think what he brings to Scrooge is - I don't believe that Scrooge has this animosity towards Christmas. He's like this every single day of the year. And that's when you realize how hardened he is, how indifferent he is, is because not even something as magical as Christmas is moving him to compassion or joy. Another one of my favorites is - he doesn't play the character of Scrooge, but he plays a version of Scrooge - is Bill Murray in the 1988 comedy, "Scrooged."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "SCROOGED")
BILL MURRAY: (As Frank Cross) I am the youngest president in the history of television for a reason. I know the people.
BURNETT: He plays this TV executive who has the same sort of, you know, crabbiness and indifference to everybody around him, including his assistant, Grace, played by the amazing Alfre Woodard. And I have to say, I think one of my favorite things about this version is that it gives us a completely different take on Bob Cratchit because Grace essentially functions as Ebenezer's clerk. You know, it's Frank Cross' assistant. The character of Bob Cratchit always just bothers me because he's such a doormat. And he has, like, all of this love and joy and spirit of Christmas but not really any cynicism. And I'm a person who I find all my joy is on the basis of cynicism. And so I love that she curses, and she's like, yeah, my life does suck, but guess what? I'm going to make the most of it. I love my family. I love this season.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "SCROOGED")
ALFRE WOODARD: (As Grace Cooley) What the hell is going on? This is my little boy.
MURRAY: (As Frank Cross) All right, you beat him. Does he work here?
WOODARD: (As Grace Cooley) No, he does not. I thought it would be fun for him to see a live television show.
BURNETT: She brings something to that role that I always have had a little bit of a, like, come on, Bob. Come on.
PARKS: Barrie, your favorite Scrooge?
HARDYMON: OK, I know this is not fair, but I'm going to choose a couple.
PARKS: Ugh, OK. It's allowed.
HARDYMON: So I just want to note that I - you know, that George C. Scott version is - you know, it is a classic portrayal, and what I like is that it's actually quite reserved. He's just sort of callous. He is - again, it gets to this point that Elena just made, which is that, you know, you can believe that this is who he is. I will say, I really became - and this is not just because I am a "Star Trek" person - but I really, really love Patrick Stewart.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "A CHRISTMAS CAROL")
PATRICK STEWART: (As Mr. Ebenezer Scrooge) If I had my way, every idiot who went around with merry Christmas on his lips would be boiled with his own pudding and buried with a stake of holly through his heart.
DOMINIC WEST: (As Fred) Come, Uncle.
STEWART: (As Mr. Ebenezer Scrooge) Nephew, you keep Christmas in your way. I'll keep it in mine.
HARDYMON: I love Patrick Stewart because he's actually - at the time that he does this, he's actually kind of young. And I love how sort of vim and vigorous he is. There's a moment when he's, like, in the Ghost of Christmas past where you're like, oh, yeah, you can see that Scrooge might have been hot. You can see that Scrooge would have, like, had this...
PARKS: Which would make you more, I guess, angry once you - I mean, I just think...
HARDYMON: Yeah.
PARKS: I think there's something about...
HARDYMON: Seeing that the was...
PARKS: ...Getting older, and you're like...
HARDYMON: Yeah.
PARKS: ...Yeah, that can be really frustrating. That can change a person...
HARDYMON: Exactly.
PARKS: ...Physically in that way, literally, yeah.
BURNETT: (Laughter).
HARDYMON: It's terrifying. So that part I really, really love. And then I also love the - very much the Shakespeare of it all. I mean, he's like - he does a little - is, like, a little bit Lear, is a little bit Hamlet, it's a little bit Polonius. He's doing Shakespeare, which I love.
PARKS: Let's look forward. Is there anything that you could see in a new "Christmas Carol" adaptation that you haven't already seen?
BURNETT: I don't necessarily have a recommendation for how to get it kind of into the modern age, but I think it's interesting to sort of inquire as to why that hasn't been done, why so many people want to return to this but are a little hesitant to actually apply it to the modern place. And I wonder if it's just 'cause we do tend to have a little bit more cynicism than that kind of, you know, suspension of disbelief these days, and maybe the current time is a little more Gothic than the original even was.
HARDYMON: I would actually answer that question and say, like, we are getting new Scrooges all the time.
BURNETT: Yeah.
HARDYMON: This is a protagonist who is a businessman who, for the first time in his life - and this is the most important reversal - sees that his life has ramifications outside of what he can actually see.
BURNETT: Yeah.
HARDYMON: As we think more about income inequality and the gulf between rich and poor, you know, the idea of Scrooge, the idea of people being able to see that what we do matters to other people and to care about those other people, I think we'll see it appear in more and more films. And, you know, in that way, Dickens has maybe told the most important story - how our lives are connected to everyone.
PARKS: That is a much better answer than - I was just thinking Steve Buscemi as Scrooge.
BURNETT: Oh, my God. I love that idea.
PARKS: That was - I just got it in my head, and I was like...
BURNETT: Oh, my God. Now I'll never be happy until it happens.
HARDYMON: I really won't. I won't. I love Steve Buscemi. Anyway, yeah, that's...
PARKS: NPR's Elena Burnett and Barrie Hardymon, thank you so much for talking Scrooge with me.
BURNETT: Thank you.
HARDYMON: Merry Christmas.
BURNETT: Merry Christmas.
PARKS: Merry Christmas. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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