Idaho Secretary of State Phil McGrane recently wrote a column with the provocative title, “Civility is not weakness. It’s leadership.”
If you watch McGrane interact with legislators and others, you see he’s a pretty even-keeled guy. But even even-keeled guys can get ticked.
There’s an interesting back story here. McGrane was responding to an Idaho Statesman editorial suggesting he’s too nice, especially in his dealing with federal election officials looking for information about voters.
This interview lightly edited for length and clarity.
Phil McGrane: It wasn't the first time that Scott McIntosh, the (Idaho Statesman) editor who wrote it, and I have kind of bumped into each other about him wanting me to be more aggressive, I guess, in some sense. But you probably saw from my response, I didn't take kindly to the inference that I'm too nice. I think there's plenty of Americans who are kind of tired of the vitriol and the shouting that is happening in all political stripes. And so the idea that the Attorney General and I were going to go on the Capitol steps and tell the Department of Justice to "pound sand" is so ridiculous.
But more importantly, I feel like I'm very effective at what I do. I just do it in my way and I do it behind the scenes. And there's still a lot of merit to civility and statesmanship.
DN: Have you had those kinds of conversations with the Department of Justice yet?
PM: I have had ongoing conversations with the Department of Justice, yes. And people are saying that, well, I guess they would ask, what have you told them? Well, I think one of the things that's interesting, overwhelmingly I think, the perception is I've stood the ground for Idaho. We've provided our public data, but we haven't provided any of our personal identifying information to the Department of Justice. They know that, we know that. The Idaho Statesman knew that. And so I think I'm doing exactly what my constituents want, but I don't have to do it in a way that was described by the Idaho Statesman.
DN: Your Secretary of State colleague in Washington, Steve Hobbs, has been a little more vocal about it and Washington has been sued. Has the Department of Justice threatened Idaho if it didn't get everything that it wanted?
PM: We've certainly been threatened. We have not been sued yet. And I think one of the important things in this space too often, and Secretary Hobbs and I know each other well. If you're a Democratic secretary with a Trump administration, it's in your best interest politically to tell him to go jump in the Puget Sound, right?
That is not the same for the Republican secretaries navigating it. And obviously we have some Republican states that have given the data right away, but lots of Republicans are struggling with the same challenges the Democrats are. And not to make this all partisan, but it's hard in this environment not to see those layers. And so just trying to navigate, and the roles could be reversed if it was a different administration, right?
I think there's too many points in politics these days just on partisanship. And so part of it is trying to really be thorough and maintain not just there's the politics speech, but more of the integrity of just elections overall.
I'm a lifelong election official and I really believe in the work that we all collectively do to make sure that the voting systems work and that voters can have confidence that their votes count. We're going to continue to do that work. And, as you probably read from the statement, I'm going to continue to smile and be friendly as I do it. I like to think even my kicking back was somewhat civil in my own way, despite I didn't mince words on what I thought.
DN: Not to be too glib about it, but does it help that Idaho has been a pretty strong ally to the president?
PM: In terms of…
DN: In terms of maybe the state of Idaho not being sued yet for not turning over all the information that the Department of Justice wanted.
PM: I don't think so. No. If you independently go to check out Harmeet Dhillon's Twitter feed, she's, I think, harder on the Republican states than she is even on the Democratic states.
DN: Looking back over the last five to 10 years, how do you characterize kind of the rhetoric that is coming from not only the state of Idaho, but the legislature?
PM: It's been pretty rough over the last several years. I don't think it's anything unique to Idaho. I think it's indicative of the country, just where we are.
I was talking to a friend following the State of the State and kind of the shouting exchange between some of the members of Congress and the president, and someone commented, that is actually a pretty accurate reflection of the state of the union.
DN: Do you get chided sometimes by legislators who are wishing that you had sharper elbows, or at least showed sharper elbows?
PM: Scott McIntosh probably expressed it the most, but I actually think I have a pretty good reputation. I mean, if you watch the Idaho legislature well enough, and I don't think I'm out of turn sharing this, but I was talking to (state Rep.) Josh Tanner the other day. We had an issue we were working on and we were talking about somebody who I don't get along with well in this building. And he's like, I don't get it. He's like, everyone gets along with you. How could you not, like, get along? And that's part of my reputation. I'm the bald guy with glasses wandering around the building. But I think in doing so, I'm really effective. I think the voters have seen that.
You know, elections has been a hot topic, but our office has taken a leading role, and I think I've built the rapport and credibility with the legislature, and really across political stripes on that front. It's working for me well. Hopefully I can gain more peers.
One of the coolest things, obviously, the Statesman piece got a pretty strong reaction. I didn't care for being called spineless. But the response initially just started as my cathartic effort to get my feelings out of my system. But what was amazing is the reach. Just like the fact that you've reached out, the breadth of people who've reached out to me, or seen it that I never would have imagined, has been really cool.
