AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Well, an elusive deal may finally be in sight. The U.S. and Iran say they have agreed to extend the current ceasefire 60 days in order to negotiate a permanent end to the Iran war. But there are still unresolved issues which could derail an agreement. One such issue is the future of Iran's nuclear program. Wendy Sherman was the lead negotiator the last time the U.S. tried to confront that issue. Those were talks that resulted in the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, but that deal fell apart when President Trump pulled the U.S. out of it in 2018. So we wanted to get Wendy Sherman's thoughts today about the challenges ahead as the U.S., once again, takes on Iran's nuclear ambitions. Sherman also served as deputy secretary of state under President Biden. Ambassador Sherman, welcome.
WENDY SHERMAN: Thank you, Ailsa. Good to be with you.
CHANG: Good to have you. OK, we have yet to see specific language for this current deal, which will be formally signed in Switzerland on Friday. But explain briefly, what is the basic framework here, as you understand it so far.
SHERMAN: Well, I think that is the key word - as I understand it - because none of us have seen it. Members of Congress haven't seen it, and we're getting all kinds of different signals. But it does appear that there will be a 60-day window to negotiate on the Iran nuclear program, having used this memorandum of understanding to get an opening of the Strait of Hormuz, to remove the U.S. blockade to improve the U.S. economy, the world economy, American taxpayers and American citizens the chance to have a better way forward. And in addition, of course, Iran wants to improve its own economy 'cause all of this started because protesters in Iran wanted change.
CHANG: Right.
SHERMAN: I'm not sure they're going to get that change, however.
CHANG: Well, would it be fair to characterize this deal, in part, as basically an agreement to keep on talking - right? - to reach a much bigger deal down the road - one that involves, say, Iran's nuclear program, economy, sanctions, etc.
SHERMAN: I think that's a fair assessment of it. The president, in some ways, is like the arsonist who also becomes the firefighter. Because, of course, until the war started, the Strait of Hormuz was opened, and there was really free passage through the strait. I'm glad that the war has ended. I'm glad that more soldiers are not going to get killed, more civilians won't be killed. I'm sorry for the - very sorry for the 160 schoolchildren who were accidentally killed - I think accidentally...
CHANG: Right.
SHERMAN: ...Killed by American forces. So all of that is good, but we really need to see this deal. Because none of us know what the president agreed to to get the opening of the Strait of Hormuz and this opening to really do the tough conversation and the tough negotiations, which require more than a couple of negotiators. It's a very...
CHANG: Well, I was going to ask you.
SHERMAN: ...Technical thing.
CHANG: How much optimism do you have on the nuclear component to all this? Because Iran's foreign minister, Abbas Araghchi, was part of the nuclear negotiations a decade ago, which you participated in. And he has already said that these new talks will happen despite a, quote, "history of broken promises." You personally know him. Given his tone there, what do you think a new Iran nuclear deal might look like this time around?
SHERMAN: Well, I think he's a very - Abbas Araghchi was my counterpart. He's a very tough negotiator. He's very knowledgeable. The president says he wants to get hold of, and perhaps dilute, as opposed to take out of the country, the virtually 1,000 pounds of highly enriched uranium. We didn't have to deal with 60% highly enriched uranium, which gets you closer to what you need for a nuclear weapon. We had to deal with a stockpile that was only on 20% enriched uranium. So this is a tougher go.
Originally, I think most people thought that any negotiated agreement this time would deal with all of Iran's nuclear facilities, but it's not clear that that's going to be part of the deal. There's an awful lot that has to be worked out here. It's highly technical. You need a lot of experts at the table, not only on sanctions and treasury, intelligence, but nuclear physicists. And I'm very glad that Kushner and Witkoff - the lead negotiators for the president - went out to Oak Ridge labs...
CHANG: If I...
SHERMAN: That's the key here.
CHANG: ...I'm so sorry to jump in, but we have a little less than a minute...
SHERMAN: Sure.
CHANG: ...And I want to ask about Israel, because do you think it's going to be hard to get Israel to respect the terms of a new deal? Israel's national security minister has already said, quote, "Trump's agreement does not bind us." What do you make of that?
SHERMAN: I make of that that Prime Minister Netanyahu does not feel he is bound by this, that he will do whatever he believes he needs to do to secure Israel. And so this is a very tough place for Israel's security, very tough for the prime minister and very tough for the U.S.-Israel relationship.
CHANG: That is Wendy Sherman, former deputy secretary of state under President Biden. Thank you very much for joining us today.
SHERMAN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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